Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 1183

I lean towards a "Gap" theory understanding between Genesis 1:1-1:3. If this happens to be true and there was a "world" or "era" prior to the six days of creation, we cannot know what that may have been like, especially spiritually. Fossil records and archeological discoveries may shed light on some of the physical matter, cultural, geological, and biological, aspects of time before the Genesis creation beginning in Ch.1:3. Will be interesting to see what God allows us to find out.

There is nothing to limit God from having designed an era prior to our present, (or multiple). We may not discover His purpose or salvic plan for these era(s) this side of heaven. After 65 years of life on this planet, all of which were lived as a member of Christ's church, I hadn't really felt much of a desire to delve into this subject. But last January, I felt that the Spirit was drawing me investigate. The internet has been very helpful as I studied with Bible in hand. It has been a fruitful study, making me prayerfully think in depth about so many things written in these first chapters of Genesis. Things I keep in mind as I study these topics are, How important is it that I fully understand this?" "Will it edify me or others? "Does this thinking add to my understanding of who my God is and how He has saved me? "Is it simply interesting to consider, but not something I need to spend a lot of time trying to figure out or share with others?"

So, I approach beginning in Genesis once again as a faith journey on which I can learn from the Holy Spirit and also improve my readiness to give an answer to those who ask me about the hope I have in God. I am thankful for all of the input others have added to the comment section. Having come from a very traditional church background for the first 20 years of my life as well as many years in various denominations since then, I am thankful to have had the fullness of the journey God has walked with me all of these years. I pray to stay true.

Do you believe you don't need to follow Jesus to be saved?

A Christian is literally a Christ follower, so if someone prays and accepts Jesus into 'his heart' as a teen then spends a lifetime of sin and blapheming God is he 'saved' to you?

What I meant previously by calling the name of the Lord is this verse: Matthew 7:21 - some will beg 'Lord Lord' and assume they were a Christ follower when in fact they weren't. Most people will go to hell. Jesus warns us of that repeatedly through parables and says to fear God. Paul says to run the race that he would 'win' the prize. Thse things they preached involve a life of action and effort- to transform into 'slaves of righteousnes', not someone kicking back smoking weed on the couch and enjoying being 'saved'. So, whenever I hear someone saying good works are bad, I know it doesn't come from God.

Romans 10:13 presumes you're choosing to follow Christ in calling on the name of the Lord. It doesn't mean Hitler can mass murder millions and curse God's name, but a take 5 second break and just say the name of the Lord and be saved. It presumes someone is genuinely pursuing Jesus Christ which is what the definition of a Christian is. God knows our hearts and whether we are genuine or not. Satan loves deceiving people into believing they can sin all they want with no consequence, but that's far from what Jesus says in the Bible. God bless.

Thank you Jesus!

I reviewed all of the comments in this section and they prompted a few thoughts I'd like to share.

Abraham traveled from Ur to Haran with his father Terah, brother Nahor, nephew Lot, niece Milkah, half-sister/wife Sarah, and servants.

He left his father and brother and their families in Haran and headed to the land God was leading him to. God said to leave his kin and go. I think he took everyone God wanted him to take with him. There is nothing in the text that states that Lot should not have gone with him. He was probably Lot's custodial parent after Haran's death, so Lot was a member of his immediate family.

Interesting how Abraham set up his altar in Bethel. Was this the same place that Jacob wrestled with God, perhaps?

Yet he still traveled south from there. Perhaps he needed to "wander" some to graze his flocks and, perhaps, God hadn't told him to set up a permanent camp/residence yet. It seems there were other events that needed to happen first. I don't know if he had ever been to Egypt before. God felt that Abraham needed to experience Egypt before he takes possession of the promised land area. Maybe the leaders of Egypt needed to know who Abraham was and about the God of Abraham. Everything was going along according to God's plan and Abraham was obedient.

It is interesting that Abraham went up a hill or mountain to offer sacrifices. In previous times inn Shinar, under Nimrod, people preferred to live in the plain and build their own "mountains" to worship their idols. Something to think about. The altars of the Israelites cut not be of cut stones (man-designed) and they did not build temples with images of their God enshrined on top of these like the pagans. God does not want our place of worship to be man-made or idolaterous. (sp?). Thus, we are his Temple and He lives in us as a Spirit. Can't make an idol of that, can we! God made us, formed us in our mother's womb. We are his dwelling place, all God created!

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life, thru Jesus Christ our Lord. I've never received a gift that I had to work or pay for or wasn't free, have you? God is the greatest giver of all time, all you have to do is repent truly, believe, confess accept and receive.

Just because they knew righteousness doesn't mean they accepted it. God will judge all those who heard the gospel harder , the ones who he told the apostles to shake the dust of their feet to. For them it would have been better not to have known righteousness, because they did not accept it. Works is not once saved always saved, works is believing your own actions dictate what Jesus did for us on the cross, the blood is my work, the Father does not see my works when He looks at me, but Christ. Do I sin more because grace does much more abound? No you should not, that doesn't mean it doesn't happen tho, but grace still abounds

Brother David,



You seem to be accepting only scripture that assures you - that no matter what you do - you will go to heaven! Sounds a lot like the false doctrine being preached in many of the mega churches today. People love it, look at the size of the congregations. Sure, you can keep your worldly life, sin at will, and low and behold - you have been told if you just believe - you will have ever lasting life - in Heaven.

Any chance all these crowds of people might be mistaken, and could they be overlooking simple bible scripture right in front of them:

Matthew 7:13-15

13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

We can't just ignore ton's of scripture, including much of the gospel of Jesus Christ, as well as his teachings while on this earth.

Here's just one scripture spoken by Jesus, that deals directly with salvation, specifically telling us what Jesus will be expecting from us - if we wish to enter into the city. (Heaven) Jesus gave these words in Revelation from his place in heaven to apostle John, 40-50 years after his death.

Revelation 22:12-14

12 And behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city

Jesus is telling us that he is the Judge. He tells us he will reward us according to our work. He also says, blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates of the city.(Heaven)

Something to really think about.

God Bless.

Brother if you have to follow Jesus to be saved, that's works. You follow Jesus because you are saved. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. If any man be in Christ he's a new creature, it doesn't say that transition takes place only when you get to heaven. You're flesh is never saved, it's your soul. Of course you're flesh is still sinful, and you live in your flesh, until it's changed and you're given a new body, not a new soul. The Bible says Job was a perfect man, did Job ever doubt? Is doubt sin? Yes. But Job tried to live for God, his heart was intent on following God. A just man falleth seven times and riseth yet again.

Amen Brother Adam and Brother Dan!!

MM, are you a born again Holy Spirit filled believer in the Lord Jesus Christ? Blood bought, water baptized?

God's blessings to all here on this site.

I have read all of the comments of this section and have a few thoughts. First, Abraham called Lot his "brother". Perhaps Abraham thought that Lot represented his brother, Haran, since Haran had died. Why his brother, Nahor, did not come with Abraham, it is not known. However, it is Nahor's descendants that Isaac and Jacob go to to secure wives. So, God had a reason for Nahor to stay in Haran, perhaps to take care of Terah or his mother and also to separate the gene pool a bit from Abraham. Abraham had a strong sense of duty to take care of Lot, it seems. I think that Lot worshipped the same God that Abraham did, since in later text, it says that Lot was vexed by the wickedness of Sodom and Gomorrah. Perhaps he was a preacher of righteousness also.

Secondly, Abraham was satisfied to have his family once again reunited. he was well blessed and really didn't have any need of the spoils. He was content with what God had given him already. Also, he may not have desired the spoils of war. He seemed like a man of peace. It seems that Abraham and the Amorites he lived with had good relations with the people of Sodom and Gomorrah at this time. Thence the meeting with Melchizedeck included these kings and representatives of the tribes that were allies. Being the "outsider" in the land, I think Abraham was accepted because he was peaceful and did not wish to take from those around him in an un-towards way. He probably kept to himself in most matters, but was willing to be helpful, to neighbors when needed, even if they worshipped idols. We are instructed to live godly lives in this wicked generation, overflowing with brotherly love and concern for others, just as Abraham did. it is not known if there were many true worshippers of God on Canaan at this time, but Melchizedeck was, and was respected. I pray that this would be true of us, too, especially when we are outnumbered by unbelievers around us.

You have to follow Jesus to be saved, if you don't follow Jesus, you won't be saved. No one is truly 'saved' until after they are judged in heaven and that won't happen until after Jesus comes.

Not everyone who calls on the name of Jesus will be saved. You have to actually follow Jesus. As a follower you still have freewill to choose your actions and sometimes people stop following Jesus. Paul said we can have assurance of salvation if we follow Jesus. Following Jesus includes obeying His commandments. Just because you obey doesn't mean you're saved by works, as some like to assume. Those who will be saved will be saved by grace through faith Ephesians 2:8. This assumes you're still following Jesus! I suspect that some don't care to follow Jesus, but still want assurances and entitlements. Jesus already said what would happen in the end to folks like this. Reread all the Bible verses previously listed.

Greetings in the name of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ!

I have read all of the comments in this section and found the ones concerning Lot interesting. I have always thought that Lot went with Abraham perhaps because as Lot's uncle, Abraham may have had an obligation, by custom, to take in his nephew and raise him in his household. I do not know how old Lot was when his father, Haran, died, but I have always thought that he was very young and needed a guardian and, by custom, stayed in the household of his guardian even into adulthood. Also, being new to the land, they may have not known of the wickedness of Sodom and Gomorrah at that time, especially if they kept apart from the other Canaanite tribes around them. Does anyone know about the possibility of such customary obligations?

Hi Ishmael,

Brother Adam provided you with great advice and a great list of bible scripture.

I will agree, yes, we can lose our (expected) salvation.

One of the greatest of many examples of someone losing their expected salvation is Judas, one of the original apostles. He choose sin, by betraying Jesus for money. Judas could have went to heaven, and would have sat on one of the 12 thrones to judge the 12 tribes of Israel. He lost his expected salvation!

We must not only believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ, we must repent, be baptized in water, and receive God's Holy Spirit.

See John 3:3-7

When we receive the Holy Spirit we will be born again, and rather than continue in sin, we should be walking in the light of righteousness while producing good works, and good fruit. If we rebel and continue to live a worldly lifestyle in sin, we will have a problem with our salvation:

I will reiterate: 2 peter 2:20-21

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

Please beware: There are no "Free Tickets to Heaven" as some false prophets would have you believe! Don't put your trust trust in Man for your salvation, read your bible and pray for understanding.

God Bless You!

God is good all the time God is good

Hi Earl Sin which is broken fellowship is the state we were born in flesh and blood so our drive was to do those things of the five senses and we were born in that state thanks to what happened in genesis. Now when we are born again of the spirit of God and do the word when we are walking by the spirit we aren't breaking fellowship but when we aren't walking by the spirit then we are walking by the flesh and that is sin. The spirit in us does not sin when we operate by it but when we don't then we do the things of the flesh which is sin. Keep in mind sin is in the blood and the life of the flesh is in the blood hence the battle between our natural man of the senses or carnal mind the world or the spiritual born again man of the spirit Gods word. Also theres a difference between intentional and non intentional sin I.E. I do lots of works but if it not with the love of God agapeo then it means nothing Corinthians 13 all chapter. I can teach the greatness of Gods Word but if theres no genuine love in it it will fall on deaf ears. The love of God is the soothing ointment that can deliver the spiritually wounded.

Sorry Ed, I apologize, at death it is 2 Corinthians 5:6,8 I Misspoke 1 Corinthians, sorry....

Precious friend Ed, Great Question!

First, believe God's Gospel Of Pure GRACE, and receive HIS ETERNAL Life! God's 'Simple' Will: Link

Next, at expiration {death} your "spirit/soul Depart To Be In The Presence Of The LORD" {In Heaven!} 1 Corinthians 5:6,8 Philippians 1:21,23

OR:

IF The LORD "Does Not Tarry" in your lifetime, Then you Will Be "Changed Into Immortality/Incorruption To Meet HIM In the air!" 1 Corinthians 15:52-53 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

To go to Judgment, IN HEAVEN! 2 Corinthians 5:1-2 1 Corinthians 3:6-15

Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!

( 2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:3-9; Ephesians 3:9 = Grace/Mystery fellowship {Romans - Philemon}, For ALL "to SEE," today,? )

Hebrews 9:10

Precious friends, since God is "not the author of Confusion" 1 Corinthians 14:33, Would He not "Have The Biblical Answer" to all The denominational Confusion {I found 10 'Different water baptismal traditions' today...}? Please Be Encouraged And Edified!

Part 1

{Borrowed from 12 baptisms "study"} ONE of Israel's various {divers} washings! Greek: Baptismos = Hebrews 9:10:

4. Levitical priesthood baptism Exodus 29:4 Leviticus 8:6 Numbers 8:7. This washing was The Second Requirement { The First being: "NO blemish!" Leviticus 21:21 }, in order to become a priest under the Law of Moses! Is this baptism in any way connected To baptism # 9?:

9. "water" baptism of repentance that John preached (Before The Cross), And Peter continued (After The Cross!), to preach! Matthew 3:5-6 Mark 1:4 Luke 3:3 John 1:31 Luke 7:29-30 Acts 10:37 Matthew 28:19 Mark 16:16 Acts 2:38 Acts 22:16 Ezekiel 36:25.

a) Does this baptism "save" anyone Luke 7:29-30?

b1) Is this baptism in any way "connected" to baptism # 4?

b2) Wasn't John preparing National Israel for God's Promise For them "to be a nation of priests unto God" Exodus 19:6?

b3) Was not The Second Requirement for priesthood induction, Washing? { may require re-review of baptism #4! }.

b4) Did not CHRIST And The Twelve "heal" everyone in Israel who came to them, in order to meet "The FIRST Requirement" For the priesthood, that Of "NO blemish!"? Matthew 4:24 Acts 5:16 cp Leviticus 21:21

Semi - conclusion? God {has Not 10 baptismS Today, but ONLY} ONE Baptism = Confusion SOLVED! And "PEACE {Not Confusion} In ALL the churches!" 1 Corinthians 14:33 Amen? Link

More questions - to be continued in Part 2

You are Very Welcome, Ishmael. May God's GRACE Richly Help you on your journey...

God's 'Simple' Will: Link

Part 2 More baptism questions for today's water adherents:

9. "water" baptism of repentance:

c) Is this baptism "for today"? IF this baptism is For us Today, we have Several More Questions:

c1) Why does No one Today, "teach, as John ( Under The LAW! ), Claimed": it is For "making CHRIST Manifest To Israel" John 1:31?

c2) Why does {Almost} No one Today, "Confess their sins," when they come to water baptism Matthew 3:6 Mark 1:5?

c3) Why do not ALL Divided "denominations who Water baptize" today, agree As ONE, And "teach" water as John, CHRIST, And The Twelve ( Under The LAW! ), "taught" That "water baptism Is For The Remission Of sins!" Mark 1:4 Luke 3:3 Acts 2:38 { instead of each one's own "symbolic Re-Interpreted Traditions!" }?

10. Baptism Of Anointing?: Pentecostal Spirit baptism; This is the baptism "WITH" The Holy Spirit, BY JESUS CHRIST, From Heaven, Poured Out Upon the believing remnant of Israel with signs and powers following. Isaiah 44:3 Matthew 3:11 Mark 1:8 Mark 16:17-18 Luke 24:49 Acts 2:17-18 Acts 2:38 Acts 8:15-17 Acts 11:16.

And, is not This The THIRD Requirement For "priesthood induction" = Anointing? Compare Exodus 29:7 Leviticus 8:10-12.

Is God Performing "This" Baptism On us TODAY? IF so, Why NO "signs and powers"?

Conclusion: IF any water adherent, today, Under GRACE, believes he/she has been water baptized into the 'Israeli priesthood,' is he/she Absolutely Sure he/she Has Met The other Two Requirements Of God? IF he/she has Not "met them," then does not The Following apply To us Today?:

God Superseded Two baptisms, Under Law, With ONE Baptism, Under GRACE! Link

Further Note: Paul, in Romans through Philemon, has No doctrine of 'priesthood' for The Body Of CHRIST, Under GRACE, Today, hmm...

Prophecy vs MYSTERY: Link

God's 'Simple' Will: Link

Chris, Crazy thing--I used the Greek for all of my texts and after I pressed submit, all of the Greek was erased. I lost the evidence for our discussion. I will attempt to get back to you when I figure out what happened. Thanks. Also, what is your theological background? I just retired from ministry after 30 years.

Hello Chris, You are correct about Romans 3:4, I gave a wrong text! Thank you for your comments. Some may read our thinking as a difference in semantics. Time for the Greek. Romans 3:22 reads in the KJV, "Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe." By faith of Jesus Christ in the Greek reads, , "By THE faith of Jesus Christ," or the faith that comes through Him. In Acts 3:16, "The faith which is From Him" is, " " If instead the phrase reads "faith IN Jesus Christ'" it could only mean OUR faith in Jesus Christ. Galatians 2:20 reads in the Greek, , . Translators have often used their own theology which can drastically change the true intent of the inspired writes of Scripture. For instance, look up the Greek for "torment" in Rev 20:10. Tell me the actual word.

I have experienced a profound faith in Christ. Only He could say, at the tomb of Lazarus, John 11:42, of the Father, "I know You always hear Me." My faith has grown to know our Father always hears me if He hears it from the Son! He is called our Advocate in 1 John 2:1. He defends us before the Father as High Priest, who offers His own life and merits on the sinner's behalf. Heaven has given us the gift of faith, Ephesians 2:8-9, to know, believe and trust ourselves to the High Priest. This is the only way to the Father that pleases Him. We dare not come to Him in our faith. Otherwise, we are entering the Most Holy Place in our own name and dishonor His Holiness.

Chris, my understanding has given me a freedom of absolute surrender to Christ I never experienced. It certainly does not distract my belief in the gospel. I no longer look at my faith to speak to the Father. I now speak to Him through the faith of Jesus. I never have to say again, "I wish I had stronger faith." I do have it! It is my faith in His faith for me!

Likely the glue between these scriptures is The Holy Spirit abiding in one's temple. The Holy Spirit's great purpose is to witness the Truth.

Thank you for speaking the truth. John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

Once saved we are then Children of God, made His children thru the blood. If I displease my physical dad, he may become angry and chasten and punish me. He may kick me out of the house, but because I've got his DNA I'm still his son, his blood flows thru my veins. God is THE Father, and His blood is the blood. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life. 1 John 5:13 if you can lose salvation, how can you know that ye have eternal life? If you can cease to be saved, there's never a certainty that you are saved at all, but this verse says, "That ye may KNOW". All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. That's 2 Timothy 3:16 why would God inspire it to be said that ye know if it wasn't so? Titus 1:2 Tells us that God who cannot lie. God wouldn't have had John write a lie. Then there's Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved thru faith, its a gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast. To say we can lose salvation thru something we've done, is to, on the opposite end say we're maintaining our salvation thru works, if it's our works maintaining us, we can boast, if that's the case, what good was it for The Perfect Lamb to die, AKA Jesus Christ The Son of God, if He couldn't provide a perfect salvation? Is God not powerful and gracious enough to maintain our salvation, or is something too hard for Him? Would you dare claim our works are too much for His grace and love? Can He then be defeated even tho He conquered death and hell on the cross? "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death." That's Revelation 1:18 If He has given us life ( Ephesians 2:1 For you hath He quickened..made alive) then by our sins we condemn ourselves once again, that is to say we have the power to pluck the keys of death and hell from Him?

I am looking for a Bible study group in my area I live in the Los Angeles area and if anyone would like to start a Bible study group I am praying Jesus will help us , I am ashamed that I have not been actively obedient or disciplined enough to regularly study my Bible so if you can pray for me pray that I find brothers and sisters in Jesus that I can study with together.

God bless and thank you

Brother David, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

You say you are born again, and I am not disputing that.

You quoted 1 John 1:8-10

As born again what do you do with 1 John 3:8-9

The scriptures have to be in unity.

Thank you, this was helpful.

Precious friend Ishmael, Great Question. God's ETERNAL Salvation {By CHRIST's All-Sufficient BLOOD} can Never "be lost" Since God's Says "IT Is ETERNAL."

On the other side, man's SELF-salvation ('conditional' Additions Cancelling CHRIST's BLOOD), can "be lost" depending on whoever's 'conditions' one chooses to go by {Confusion}.

God's Three Tenses Of HIS ETERNAL Salvation: Link

Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!

( 2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:3-9; Ephesians 3:9 = Grace/Mystery fellowship {Romans - Philemon}, For ALL "to SEE," today,? )

Part I

2 Corinthians 1:9-10

"...God Which raiseth the dead: Who Delivered us from so great a death, and Doth Deliver: in Whom we trust that He Will Yet Deliver us"

Precious friends, is not the Solution to Confusion about God's Eternal Salvation, recognizing God's Differences Between His Relationship With us, And our fellowship with HIM?

God's Simple Will, Today, Under His Pure GRACE? Very Simply showing Three Tenses Of His ETERNAL Salvation:

1) Past Tense:

God Establishes His Eternal Relationship With those who humbly believe, 100% trust, place Total faith, In The LORD JESUS CHRIST, His Death {Precious BLOOD}, Burial, And His Resurrection, According To The Scriptures! 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 cp Ephesians 2:8-9 Romans 3 Romans 4 Romans 5

"GRACE Through faith" In The Merits Of HIS Precious And ALL-Sufficient BLOOD Results:

All sins Forgiven, His Eternal Life, and, Peace With God! This Is Eternal Deliverance From "So Great A Death," The Penalty of sin! God's Operations Are Justification And Sanctification:

Justification Is 'His Righteousness Imputed To us' Romans 4:13,16,22,24

Sanctification Is 'God Setting us Apart,' Spiritually Romans 15:16 1 Corinthians 1:2

This is First for those who have "first trusted In Christ, Are Made Accepted In The Beloved, and Were Sealed With That Holy Spirit of Promise, Which is The Earnest of our inheritance until The Redemption of The Purchased possession, To The Praise And Glory Of HIS GRACE" Ephesians 1:6,12,13,14 = The Past tense of God's Eternal Salvation

And Then Only After This, occurs the "present and future" tenses of 2 Corinthians 1:10

to be continued in Part II